tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post4986626603156940534..comments2023-10-23T14:16:46.342-04:00Comments on Jewish Outreach: What Your Rabbi Isn't Telling You: Shedding Light on Meorbechttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16146699715760197131noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-64586588778921207102021-04-27T23:00:21.262-04:002021-04-27T23:00:21.262-04:00testtestGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15607644759658339566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-41682143691398954512019-02-21T07:39:19.235-05:002019-02-21T07:39:19.235-05:00Sorry man -Reform began c.1800. https://en.wikiped...Sorry man -Reform began c.1800. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Judaism<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskalah<br /><br />Before reform for thousands of years, Jewish practice was what today is considered orthodox- meaning seeing the Torah directives as a lifestyle mandated by God for the Jewish People. <br />If someone decided not to follow that openly, they were usually expelled from their communities, which paralleled the general disciplinary processes which were common in those days.<br /><br />Occasionally other sects began, but they died down fairly quickly.<br /><br />You could claim that "Reform" existed in the second temple's time - the hellenized Jews who helped overthrow the pharisees. But they were just that - Hellenized. Before they were hellenized they were practicing classical Judaism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-68049256590363944592018-01-23T23:31:01.614-05:002018-01-23T23:31:01.614-05:00Paris, you sound like a MEOR poster child. In fac...Paris, you sound like a MEOR poster child. In fact, I see you ARE a poster child for Aish! I know that you THINK you became immersed by your own free will, but I disagree. There is a small army of highly trained recruiters who sucked you into this, and you are completely unaware of that. Wouldn't you have liked to know that before they worked their magic on you? Aish & MEOR cause great harm to many families. Defending them is no more honorable than defending a child molester. Those rabbis may use sex or not, but they molest just the same.<br /><br />Free From MeorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-22166349332360444962018-01-23T23:13:36.551-05:002018-01-23T23:13:36.551-05:00I have a big problem with this statement: "S...I have a big problem with this statement: "Stopping" kiruv is essentially barring the majority of Jews from even knowing what the Orthodox mentality and lifestyle is.<br /><br />Lynn, the meor rabbi at Penn, (who was not employed by the University, but pretended he was by calling himself The Rabbi at The University of Pennsylvania), went out of his way to explain to me that what they were teaching was Just Judaism, like your grandparents practiced. My grandparents didn't practice Judaism at all so that seemed pretty harmless. Was this Reform Judaism I asked, because I think my grandparents or g-grandparents belonged to a Reform Temple? No, Meor was teaching True Torah Judaism, (whatever that was). Was this Conservative? No. Was it Orthodox? No, Lynn said it was Just Judaism. Wow sounded pretty harmless. And this lie was spoken directly to me, straight to my face, by the guy in charge. <br /><br />If you think these guys don't lie, misrepresent, twist words and deceive in order to gain new recruits you're not very observant.<br /><br />I am awake & not falling for this any longer. Maybe it's time you wake up too.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Free From MeorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-60166977378278305442017-10-13T00:33:08.219-04:002017-10-13T00:33:08.219-04:00I am shocked by all of the negative comments here....I am shocked by all of the negative comments here. I participated in MEOR at Penn a few years ago, I had a wonderful experience, learned an enormous amount, made long-term friends, studied individually with the rabbis, and I was NOT "brainwashed" into becoming Orthodox. <br /><br />I grew up Conservative and went to Jewish Day School, but I was always "rebellious" as a child, often breaking Shabbat or eating non-kosher food just to spite my parents. I also hated my Jewish-related courses in school. When I came to Penn, I started off going to Hillel CJC and it was a nice social setting to hang out with other Jews, but there was little more to it. Sophomore year, I heard about MEOR from Jewish friends and decided to sign up. I was pleasantly surprised by the intellectual and philosophical approach they took. They genuinely made many elements of Judaism, which I had found boring in high school, interesting to me!<br /><br />A lot of my friends did it too. Some were raised Conservative, some Reform, some very secular. The more secular Jews were usually the ones who just did it for the money and free food, and few of them continued beyond the first year. Some may have met spouses (I'm honestly not sure), but I think that's the extent of their participation. Most of the people I know who did flip out and become Ultra-Orthodox were raised either Conservative (often with a strong Jewish identity) or Reform. In other words, my experience and observations totally contradict the picture that some people are painting here. Also, one of my friends who was raised Reform and became frum actually ended up joining Chabad, but MEOR was where he was first exposed to the Orthodox outlook. And honestly for most people, it didn't necessarily make them more religious, but it did motivate them to reconnect more with their Jewish identities, prompting some to seek out Jewish spouses.<br /> <br />Accusing MEOR of "brainwashing" kids completely undermines their OWN personal choices and beliefs. Most of the BTs I know started off with a strong Jewish identity, but programs like MEOR (or Chabad) just helped them strengthen it. The frum lifestyle is definitely not for me, and I don't agree with them about everything, but the people who chose that path did so very much independently, and I respect that enormously.<br /><br />And, sorry, but no assimilation is NOT a good thing! It's great to be an American (or whatever country you live in), but it's extremely important to not lose your Jewish identity. If we all assimilated, then there wouldn't even be a discussion. There would be no more Jews. Not everybody has to flip out, but people should be able to expose less religious Jews to viewpoints they might otherwise never encounter. "Stopping" kiruv is essentially barring the majority of Jews from even knowing what the Orthodox mentality and lifestyle is. A Reform or even Conservative Jew is almost never going to seek out Orthodoxy without context because it's intimidating and the communities are often isolated. At the very least, these kids should have the option of seeing the other perspective, and this is exactly what kiruv offers.<br /><br />I am very far from being Orthodox, let alone Ultra-Orthodox, but I will say that MEOR (and to some extent Chabad) have helped me reconnect with and strengthen my Jewish identity, and for that I am very thankful. Overall, I am much more observant today than I would have ever predicted as a child and it's because I was exposed to other viewpoints about Judaism that I found to be much more compelling than the Reform and Conservative views I'd seen as a teenager. I think it's really shameful that people here are trying to depict kiruv as sinister or bad in any way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-31390323740274181492017-10-08T15:47:38.794-04:002017-10-08T15:47:38.794-04:00I 100% agree with this statement and sentiment. As...I 100% agree with this statement and sentiment. As a college student who now has incredible opportunities to learn from rabbis, I feel as though the payment is given solely due to the fact that it is time-consuming. If a college student could be working or studying for classes, they will choose that over taking religious classes. It's about time management and, as MEOR and many other student outreach programs recognize, young adults need an incentive to join anything. If other programs were paying to learn, religious or not, students would be more willing to take the time and sign up. The fact that it IS religiously affiliated doesn't make it forceful or pushed. The kids come to their religion on their own, despite the program's "intentions". Of course our rabbis and rebbetzins would love for us to connect to Judaism, but your willingness to become observant is TOTALLY up to you. I have never felt pressured and I agree with THIS comment, regarding the common misconception of brainwashing. It is ridiculous and these student outreach programs want nothing more than to educate young Jewish people who may or may not have had exposure before being away from home. Parishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00987919491709362328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-61465320197211645692017-07-11T00:57:03.433-04:002017-07-11T00:57:03.433-04:00To KK:
1. Meor lures kids in with stipends tha...To KK: <br /><br />1. Meor lures kids in with stipends that they call or heavily suggest are fellowships, merit based scholarships, University sanctioned scholarships and highly coveted awards when nothing could be further from the truth. They are payments to guarantee that students will sit for brainwashing sessions. It's a way to buy recruits. Let's call a spade a spade. Of course Meor hides their intention. I asked the kiruv rabbi at Penn if his goal was to make students Orthodox and he lied to my face when he said "no." Penn parents were so outraged with that deceptive stipend program that they demanded it stop. See this article:<br /> http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/09/meor-cancels-stipend-for-maimonides-leaders-fellowship<br /><br />2. The goal of Meor is to make kids Orthodox, especially secular ones. To claim that many Jews, (especially kiruv Jews), don't define themselves as Orthodox in order to unite all Jews is laughable, disingenuous, deceptive and another lie. Kiruv rabbis don't use denominations in order to confuse their targets. Non practicing secular Jews may have only heard of Reform, Conservative and Orthodox. To go from no religion to Orthodox is an enormous jump, maybe too big a jump. But to just read about "True Torah Judaism" from a well trained, highly motivated kiruv rabbi who supposedly has no denomination, well that seems safe enough. It's part of the lure, part of the deception, and it's a con well played played over and over by kiruv rabbis. It's dishonest and shameful. <br /><br />3. The lies seem to grow. Prominently displaying the name of a University with whom Meor has no formal connection on one's web site is deception at its grandest. Why not say Meor - serving colleges in Boston, New Haven, Philadelphia etc.? Because the point is to make Meor look as if it's a sanctioned part of a University. They want people, especially parents, to think they were checked out by the University, and they're approved of by the University. Nothing could be further from the truth. Meor gloms onto college names, uses the good will and good name of a college, and has their way with students whose unsuspecting parents are thousands of miles away. <br /><br />Combine the use of the college name with the stipend that is also made to sound like it comes from a campus academic source, and combine it with the lack of transparency about what denomination these supposedly true torah kiruv Jews are practicing, and you're batting three for three on deceptive lies.<br /><br />4. Again, the stipend is a lure and the threat of non-payment keeps students in a chair for kiruv rabbis to work their magic. It's a paid brainwashing program, except the students, their parents and the University who Meor attaches itself to don't know.<br /><br />5. Meor teaches a skewed version of Jewish heritage. They also fill kids' heads with nonsense such as the "meaning and value of their Jewish heritage." Kids exit, (if they're lucky and get out), with inaccurate facts about how their ancestors lived, how they practiced the religion, and WHETHER they practiced the religion. <br /><br />Assimilation is not a tragedy! It is how Jews chose to live when they became educated, prosperous and free from political oppression. It is a good thing.<br /><br />I've had it with kiruv thugs. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-6888617919301407252017-05-12T19:19:47.543-04:002017-05-12T19:19:47.543-04:00I just stumbled across this discussion while looki...I just stumbled across this discussion while looking for something else and I have a few points to make.<br /><br />1. Just because a program offers a stipend doesn't make it sinister or imply it has a hidden agenda. As a former campus rabbi and Hillel director familiar with the Maimonides Fellowship program, I understand that they strive to provide Jewish text-based learning and philosophy to college students, using classical sources. Their leadership consists of Torah-observant Jews and their programming conforms to halachic practice. They do not hide this -- any potential participant will see this immediately.<br /><br />2. Many observant Jews choose not to apply the label "Orthodox" to themselves (I am one such person.) because they don't support dividing the Jewish people up into opposing factions. To demand that they nevertheless accept the label "Orthodox" simply because of their commitment to observance, and to suggest they are deceiving people if they don't accept the label, not only ignores this crucial principle but also insults other people in the Jewish community who consider themselves observant but associate in different circles, as if to (falsely) say that anyone who identifies with a faction other than "Orthodox" is necessarily not committed to observance. Plenty of "Reform" and "Conservative" leaders would object to such an insistence on a one-to-one correspondence between the commitment to Jewish practice and the term "Orthodox".<br /><br />3. The use of a college name such as in the phrase "Meor at Penn" or "Meor at Yale", etc. does not imply university involvement in, or endorsement for, the program any more than it does when Hillel labels itself that way, such as "Hillel at Penn" or "Hillel at Yale". It merely tells people the location at which the program is based and the population the program attempts to serve.<br /><br />4. It is not uncommon for an organization to offer a stipend or fellowship for people to engage in study or research, even if they are not receiving credit for that study at the college they attend full-time. Of course and obviously the Maimonides Fellowship program uses the stipend as an incentive to entice students to attend, and of course they won't pay the stipend to a student who does not complete the requirements of the program, anymore than someone would pay a contractor who doesn't complete their job. The participants know these conditions -- which are typical of such stipends -- going in; there is no subterfuge here. The stipend is designed to enable students to take hours they might otherwise spend in a part time job and instead use them to study Torah without financial loss. Many programs do this. To accuse one of acting deviously because of it, smacks of some prejudice against the content of, rather than tactics in, Meor's work. While one has a right to dislike what a particular organization stands for, one ought not attempt to deny that organization the benefit of the same promotional efforts that other similar organizations use to promote their programs, as long as they are upfront and honest.<br /><br />5. At a time when we are witnessing never before seen levels of Jewish assimilation, we ought to be applauding whatever viable efforts appear on the scene to provide students a real and profound opportunity to learn about the meaning and value of their Jewish heritage. Precisely because people are different, we need a variety of such programs that employ a variety of approaches. Meor is but one such program in a fortunately diverse myriad of such programs, and it deserves the same accolades as all the other programs engaged in this vital work for this noble cause.KKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-23711134838506654802017-04-25T13:46:22.168-04:002017-04-25T13:46:22.168-04:00For what it's worth, I saw that the University...For what it's worth, I saw that the University of Pennsylvania Director of Campus Chaplaincy and the Director of Hillel International both endorsed Meor in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZ717TqF5s. They speak pretty highly of the organization as an educational program. I noticed you questioned whether UPenn or Hillel actually partner with or support the organization, so this might be a helpful snapshot of where the institutional relationships were as of a couple years ago.<br /><br />Overall, I'd say a person should ask friends about the program and attend a lecture if they want to know what Meor is about. And a parent should ask other parents of Meor students and sources at the college that they find trustworthy to get their perspectives, also. Probably parents who feel strongly about vetting the educational information their children receive would also be researching professors whose classes their children are considering signing up for, so the process would be the same.<br /><br />-A guy who never attended a Meor event in college, but met some Meor alumni after college (both folks who liked and disliked it)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-61609829601561667422016-09-12T11:06:47.116-04:002016-09-12T11:06:47.116-04:00wow, you have issueswow, you have issuesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-9008278699549226472016-01-07T23:33:21.149-05:002016-01-07T23:33:21.149-05:00SOOOOOOO well said!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SOOOOOOO well said!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-7171944286854710332015-01-19T16:31:21.689-05:002015-01-19T16:31:21.689-05:00That is the point. It contributes to why Meor-sty...That is the point. It contributes to why Meor-style kiruv is not to be trusted. It is deceptive. They tell kids one thing, but they are under pressure to produce BT's and will do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal. Even lie.<br /><br />Clear MindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-13260550855192462732015-01-18T18:12:07.307-05:002015-01-18T18:12:07.307-05:00As if all other programs ever thought of run on ai...As if all other programs ever thought of run on air. C'mon, they all run on money that can go away if results aren't produced. Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-39661215087434216372015-01-18T00:02:47.844-05:002015-01-18T00:02:47.844-05:00The thing is, Reginald, donors expect results. If...The thing is, Reginald, donors expect results. If they don't get them they'll stop giving. So kiruv professionals have to produce BT's or their cash flow will dry up. There is a lot of pressure for them to produce & that can lead to them not being forthright & honest.<br /><br />Clear MindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-30938223400704923112015-01-17T21:14:20.506-05:002015-01-17T21:14:20.506-05:00I'd like to repeat what I wrote, emphasizing ...I'd like to repeat what I wrote, emphasizing one word: "And their response is USUALLY what? "Heh, who cares?! I'm getting funded to go to Israel!" So, it does matter to some and it doesn't matter to others. (So I'm not arguing with your second sentence.) The donors aren't EXPECTING anything in return for their gift. They're HOPING that their gift will attract the person to choose to lead an orthodox life. Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-46420584459861015032015-01-16T16:41:58.739-05:002015-01-16T16:41:58.739-05:00Right, every college student should read the small...Right, every college student should read the small print & untangle the deception that Meor presents before accepting an invitation. <br /><br />Although, it's just amazing how they manage to consistently pull off that "observant wedding" non-guarantee.<br /><br />Clear MindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-318755822106008742015-01-16T16:37:41.652-05:002015-01-16T16:37:41.652-05:00Actually, it DOES matter who is donating the money...Actually, it DOES matter who is donating the money. Some of us will not accept money from people with agendas who expect something in return for it. In the case of Meor's anonymous donors, it turns out that quite a few promote the agenda of making secular Jews ultra orthodox. Everyone should know up front what is expected in return for a gift. I suspect that Meor would have far less success if they were open and honest about who their donors are. <br /><br />Clear MindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-50872703665150533252015-01-16T16:31:59.507-05:002015-01-16T16:31:59.507-05:00Reginald,
Most organizations do not promote the...Reginald, <br /><br />Most organizations do not promote their way as the one and only True Torah Judaism, suggesting everything else is wrong. They do not tell recruits that all Jews used to practice the way they do now, which we know is false. They do not tell recruits that what they are showing them is their "heritage," as if their parents denied them of important family history. In fact, other groups of Jews do not recruit.<br /><br />Clear MindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-10162254061583549162015-01-16T16:26:10.988-05:002015-01-16T16:26:10.988-05:00Reginald, University students are required to keep...Reginald, University students are required to keep up their grades in order to participate in University sanctioned activities. Students are frequently put on notice or suspended from teams when they do not meet the minimum academic requirements. The problem with Meor is they present themselves as being University sanctioned when they are not. Meor usually calls itself "Meor at ______ (pick your campus)." That suggests they are affiliated with, and sanctioned by the school whose name they use, and Meor does nothing to dispel this notion. <br /><br />The audacity it takes for Meor to sucker people into believing they are sanctioned by a University, and then turn around and claim no affiliation or responsibility when students have problems, (we're just a community service club), staggers the mind.<br /><br />Clear Minded<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-48741732209720254262015-01-16T13:53:49.917-05:002015-01-16T13:53:49.917-05:00bec writes: "However, if the only information...bec writes: "However, if the only information out there is one-sided, then making an educated choice is impossible, since half of the information is missing."<br />I can go to one Jewish group and get one-sided information. I can go to another group and get other one-sided information. An ashkenazic kollel, a Chabad, a Sephardi center, the Modern Orthodox shul down the road. I fully anticipate that the information will be one-sided from each one. But the very fact that I now have these four options challenges your notion that "an educated choice is impossible."Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-59374489336064769692015-01-16T13:44:52.346-05:002015-01-16T13:44:52.346-05:00"If a student starts to do poorly in his/her ..."If a student starts to do poorly in his/her university courses, but is spending a lot of time with Meor, how does the Meor staff handle this? Do they discourage the student from staying with Meor? Do they have a minimum GPA that must be maintained in order to remain part of Meor?" -- <br />Great questions. Questions that can be asked of soccer clubs, glee clubs, and community service clubs, too.Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-28741387793857679762015-01-16T13:39:22.405-05:002015-01-16T13:39:22.405-05:00"Who are these generous donors who are giving..."Who are these generous donors who are giving money to Meor? And why are they doing so? What is their goal?" -- People ask that question about the donors to Nefesh b'Nefesh. A person who is interested in using this organization to move to Israel may find out who is donating that money -- often evangelical Christians who have their own agendas. And their response is usually what? <br />"Heh, who cares?! I'm getting funded to go to Israel!"Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-11086348969749894492015-01-16T13:05:14.197-05:002015-01-16T13:05:14.197-05:00"How can they guarantee that there will be &q..."How can they guarantee that there will be "an observant Jewish wedding" for their participants to attend?" -- Who says they guarantee it? In fact, if you read the blurb carefully, you'll see the words "such as". The words "such as an observant wedding" cannot be construed as a guarantee.Reginaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-59221822990381864282014-09-03T12:20:29.873-04:002014-09-03T12:20:29.873-04:00I'd also like to clarify that the author of th...I'd also like to clarify that the author of this blog and I had entirely different experiences with kiruv. She became involved with Chabad & my experience is with Aish/Meor groups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3965506036256262699.post-35117576891318917882014-09-03T05:09:11.733-04:002014-09-03T05:09:11.733-04:00I do not underestimate the intellect of college st...I do not underestimate the intellect of college students, Jewish or otherwise. I maintain that secular Jews do not know the difference between a kiruv rabbi and a Reform rabbi. Campus kiruv rabbis make it a point to act as non Jewish as possible to disarm secular students and their parents. They intentionally dupe people by downplaying, if not denying, their ultra Orthodox affiliation. When they say "we're just Jewish, like your grandparents," it's a bold faced lie. My grandparents did not practice kiruv-style Judaism. <br /><br />To suggest that money is not a lure for students is out of touch with reality. Just as students can turn down money, so too can drug addicts turn down drugs. The likelihood of either happening is low. When Meor waves money in front of kids, tells them they just have to take a few classes, then argues that they should just walk away half way through if they don't enjoy it, especially in the face of love bombing junior Meor acolytes hounding them, they go beyond the boundary of what is reasonable. Meor knows exactly what they're doing. The problem is that students do not. Students will hang in there for the paycheck and out of a sense of honor to complete what they started. The money is a ploy and tool to give kiruv rabbis time to work on prospective recruits.<br /><br />Jews did not invent the practice of donating money anonymously. The hidden agenda with Meor is their goal to make students ultra Orthodox. They claim to practice "just Judaism, like what your grandparents practiced," when in fact it is Meor's goal to make students fully practicing ultra Orthodox Jews. Why not be up front & call themselves an evangelical ultra Orthodox Jewish organization? Why keep that hidden? Meor may not be breaking laws by keeping their donors hidden, but they are acting immorally. <br /><br />I think it's wonderful if your association with Meor does not affect you or your relationships. I wonder what you might have done with your summer had you not gone to Israel with Meor? I stick to my assertion that you are well on your way to becoming fully Orthodox, that you don't see this happening to you, that you THINK you are making decisions such as buying slightly more modest pieces of clothing or eating more kosher foods, but that the changes and decisions in your life are actually happening TO you because an organization with anonymous donors put a great deal of effort into making sure it would. I also maintain that you can't see it.<br /><br />It is absolutely right for me to speak out about groups such as Meor. They cause tremendous damage to families, they derail the lives of students, and they are deceptive about their goals. Remaining silent would be criminal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com